Debit card coverage?

Matt, its up to each individual bank, but geneally debit card purchases aren't protected.

I have found this BBC article regarding the tricky Visa Debit refund situation.

All interested should read this and fight it a bit more with their bank regarding their entitlement to refunds for undelivered goods.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/working_lunch/7347146.stm

My question comes from the email from WrapIt that was posted on another thread. Just wondering whether I could confirm the part I've put in boldface below with a third party...

>From: "Marie-Louise Lange"
>Subject: If Wrapit goes under
>Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 15:44:58 +0100
>
>
>Dear .............,
>
>I am writing to respond formally to your question about the security of
>your guests money in the event that Wrapit goes under for whatever reason.
>
>Your concern is understandable in the light of recent failures by
>wedding list companies. However, I believe that I can reassure you
>that what is at risk in this situation is some embarrassment, rather than money.
>
>All the purchases made over the phone or via the internet are defined
>by the credit card companies as 'cardholder not present' transactions.
>With transactions of this type, the purchaser is always indemnified by
>his or her credit card provider against any failure by the retailer to deliver the
>goods purchased. The only exceptions to this are Switch cards, most of
>which have now been replaced by Maestro cards, which provide the same
>indemnity as credit cards.
>
>So, if Wrapit fail to deliver the gifts to you, for any reason, your
>guests are entitled to a full no-questions refund from their card
>providers under the standard terms of their contracts with those card
>providers. The card providers are guaranteed the funds by our credit
>card processing bank
>(HSBC) who, in turn, require us to provide funds (or unused facilities)
>in our account to cover this potential liability.
>
>This provides an effective insurance policy to ensure that your guests
>can make their purchases with confidence.
>
>I hope that this answers your question and will be happy to answer any
>other questions that you may have.
>
>Yours,
>
>Marie-Louise

This is guidance for retailers, showing that Chargebacks can be processed for Maestro transactions

http://www.lloydstsbcardnet.com/merchant_account/chargebacks.asp

Can anyone define a "chargeback" for me please? Am I right in saying this relates to the retailer and not (in our case) the guest?

From what I've read above, Visa debit customers can claim back money (within 120 days of making the purchase). I've had a positive response from Lloyds about this and am trying to gather information to give to my guests.

I've heard an announcement will be made this lunchtime. Someone who works at Wrapit tells me KPMG have been attempting to get together a package whereby couple's lists are fulfilled, but I'll believe it when I see it.

I have just spoken with HSBC. According to them, there is no coverage for those who paid with a Maestro card, contrary to the guidance issued by WrapIt above.

Hi,

As regards Maestro payments, will it not depend on the issuing bank, ie HSBC may not refund but if it is a Natwest Maestro they may?

Please can someone clarify. I assume that for every card type it will be up to the individual bank to say what their policy is.

Thanks,

Camilla.

Yes, I fear that while there might be a theoretical process for card ISSUERS to claim chargeback on maestro, whether the banks will do this for their CARD-HOLDERS is seemingly up to their own discretion.
Anyone know any more about this?

The bank can certainly theoretically perform a chargeback (I used to work for an online retailer and have seen this first hand) but it does seem to be up to the bank whether they will do this ie it is up to them whether they help you or not. Pointing this out, and their obligation to provide good customer service (especially as their competitors do this) might be useful. It may also be worth pointing out the HSBC provide their maestro card as the standard current account card, and you don't have a choice in the matter. Hence they are providing you with a substandard product, expecially compared to competitor banks like Barclays who provide a visa debit card as standard - ie better customer protection and service. So they need to sort this out. Finally their literature mentions how great the maestro card is as you can use it online, with no mention of the lack of proection should things go wrong - again poor customer service, and even misleading. It is not even mentioned in the small print as far as I could see...

Wikipedia on chargebacks

Try again - that didn't work!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chargeback

This article, which came out at the time of the FarePak collapse, seems to indicate that, while debit cards are generally at the discretion of the issuing bank, Maestro cards as a rule are not covered. (NB: my emphasis & bolding, below)

Does anyone know if Irish credit cards are covered under the Consumer Credit Act?

RBS and Natwest refused chargeback with their maestro cards regarding the Farepak debacle!

I have just been told by a guest that they have had a full refund for a gift of less than £100 accepted on a Natwest Maestro debit card. Apparently they have a policy in place for Wrapit customers but you do need to be persistent to get someone when you call that knows about it.

I have just telephoned my bank (HSBC) regarding two outstanding gifts (bought for two different couples using HSBC Maestro debit card). I have been advised to write to KPMG to request a letter confirming that Wrapit are in administration and have not delivered our gifts, and to also request an "unsecured creditor claim form". I then have to forward these to HSBC.

Is the the usual process for claiming or I am just being fobbed off and sent down a route that is really unlikely to be successful?

I think you are being fobbed off.
HSBC obviously know that Wrapit are in admin so it doesn't make sense to ask for a letter from the Admin unless they also ask that the Admin letter state that you bought gifts of X value and they were not delivered.
Asking for the unsecured creditor claim form sounds like a load of nonsense too as that has nothing to do with your relationship with HSBC - that is your own relationship with the Admins.
Phone back and ask for the dispute department, then ask to speak to their manager and then say other banks are allowing charge backs on debit cards (which is true). Call until you get the response you want seems to be the way to get success.
Good luck and keep us all posted

I've seen conflicting reports - is it within 120 days of making the purchase or within 120 days of the couple placing the order? And is this for payments of less than GBP100, as my reading of sec 75 was that there was no time limit, which is what Barclaycard also confirmed?

sorry that last bit should be no time limit for purchases of over GBP100 on UK credit cards?

I also bank with HSBC and purchased with a maestro from Wrapit. When I called HSBC told me they do not give refunds / chargebacks for payments made with their meastro card.

I understand they are operating as per the legal position on this, which is that you are not entitled to either a refund or chargeback when making purchases on Maestro cards for whatever the resaon you wish to claim.

You are entilted to and adviced to register as an unsecured creditor with KPMG. However you are extremely unlikely to get anything back as Wrapit do not have the funds required to pay back all their creditors and unsecured creditors are last in line to be dealt with.

I know this seems bleak but it does seeem to be realistic.Sorry.

You have replied to a post about maestro cards with advice about debit cards! Not helpful!

The last comment relates to the post : Submitted by Anonymous on Fri, 08/08/2008 - 15:15.

I have just spent 15 minutes on the phone to Natwest - having already had several conversations with my branch.

They absolutely deny having any such refund policy. If anyone knows different, could they please post here exactly how to go about it (eg - the name of the person spoken to would help!).

Thanks.

When i used to bank with NatWest they would pay me for silly things if i complained enough (including £20 to divert a taxi when a cash machine was out of action)

I then realised this was because i was paying them a few hundred quid a year in overdraft interest and they were quite keen to keep my business.

I left

So the moral is that Nat West won't treat everyone the same

Personally, I have been with Natwest for 20+ years and have always thought them a great bank, although I'm interested to see what they do about this now and will have to consider moving my account if Maestro cards aren't covered by them, as that is all they issue us with.
Does anyone know the current situation though - according the credit card table on this site earlier Natwest were issuing refund, but now they have disappeared from the table - does that mean that info was wrong?

Apparently, Natwest will issue a Visa debit card if a customer requests it, instead of the ordinary Maestro one.

1) This might be worth doing anyway to cover yourself against future problems. I will.

2) It MIGHT form the basis of an argument with Natwest (I shall try it!) that had I known that my Maestro card was unsecured I would have asked for a Visa one, and would therefore have been covered. Slim chance, I know, but...

Hi scott & joanne beedie, do you have further details about the Natwest scenario you mentioned? i.e. what is this policy, can you get hold of it or have further reference details. I'm trying to get back £800 we paid on a Natwest Maestro card to top up our own wedding list so would be very interested to know more about this. Please reply to leigh2005@hotmail.co.uk if you have anything that can help.

"Hi scott & joanne beedie, do you have further details about the Natwest scenario you mentioned? i.e. what is this policy, can you get hold of it or have further reference details. I'm trying to get back £800 we paid on a Natwest Maestro card to top up our own wedding list so would be very interested to know more about this. Please reply to leigh2005@hotmail.co.uk if you have anything that can help."

-

Or better still, post it here please!

Scott & Joanne Beedie reply about Natwest
My guest just told me she was told she would get a full refund on a £70ish gift bought on a Natwest Maestro debit card. She was told the money would be repaid into her account within 5 working days. She was told they had a policy for Wrapit couples in place - though she had to talk to about 4 people to find this out.
I will email her asap to try and get more details so we can all hopefully benefit.

that would be great Scott/Joannie, as I also have guests who paid by Natwest Maestro. That's interesting too about asking for a visa debit card from them, will certainly do that now.