Report on Committee meeting with KPMG

Thanks for the update. So does this mean that our guests who paid by Maestro can get a refund? Also, what did KPMG say about guests from abroad who paid with a debit card?

Hi this is great news about the card refunds thanks for all your help, is there anything else we can give to our guests who paid on debit card/Maestro to prove HSBC will honour the refunds?

Thanks for the update.

Where are when will the table of card providers be published?

N.B. It is not clear from your post whether, and if so which, debit cards should now be refunded. The table needs to make this explicitly clear.

The situation with debit cards, particularly Maestro, is the most confused part of the situation.

We are seeing that some debit cards are making refunds even if the transaction falls below the £100 point, this is purely a decision of those card providers though wanting to provide a good service to their customers. The important point is that people who used debit cards need to say they are making a claim under the Chargeback system. The refunds are made to the card holder by their card provider, and it is not a case of HSBC authorising or honouring refunds. Furthermore, not all debit card providers will pay refunds for amounts below £100. More on this later.

As it is now confirmed that Wrapit will not be continuing in any format, the letter sent out by HSBC is to instruct card providers that they should proceed with their procedures for dealing with claims, without delays that could be caused by the need to wait for any non-delivery of the goods period to expire for example. As mentioned earlier we are seeking a meeting with HSBC to clarify and confirm the contents of their instructions, and will communicate this to you as soon as we have it.

The most important thing is that your guests are now pushing their card providers for answers about settling the refund claims. As has been mentioned we've been having a few IT problems in the last week or so, and the table of card providers will therefore be posted shortly. Please be aware though this table does not state who will and won't pay refunds, as we are not in position to confirm this categorically. The purpose of the table is to provide guidance as to which providers are appearing to be helpful and which aren't, and the best way of contacting the relevant departments at those providers.

As we do not make policy decisions for the card providers we will then be looking to influence them in the best way we can, particularly those who are proving reluctant to settle claims. This is where we will need your help. If there becomes a commmon theme of particular providers not settling claims then we need you to let us know. Then we can take this up with KPMG and HSBC to see if there's anything they can do. There is also the angle for pressure to be applied via positive and negative PR, and the ultimate option of getting the Financial Ombudsman involved.

We all need to take responsibility for communicating with our own guests to make their individual claims, and the committee will continue to push from the other end to influence the decisions about how these claims will be handled. Then as further news is available for pushing the claims for refunds we will communicate this information to you.

If there is a letter from HSBC instructing card providers on processing claims, our guests need a copy of this ASAP.

For example, Natwest has been extremely unhelpful and has refused even to provide a central postal address for Chargeback claims - such a letter would provide a critical entry point for them.

Hi,

thanks for all tne news so far.

My main interest however, is the accountability of this fiasco by the directors.

Is there any news on whether or not the Company had been trading illegally or if the directors are going to be held accountable in any way. I would also hope that we can help push the powers that be to look at better ways of protecting the consumer, this story is becoming more and more familiar.

Keep up the good work - its much appreciated.

HSBC has told me that under no circumstances will it refund the money I spent on Wrapit. Three times I have tried (including showing them the posting from Which on internet purchases) and three times they have told me not a chance.
I am now asking our friends who used Maestro to let me know and will try and claim from our insurance company.
I will of course complain to the Ombudsman about HSBC but I hold out little hope.

With regards to the accountability for the failure of Wrapit KPMG were not able at this point to give us anything concrete as to why the business went under, all those investigations are still ongoing. Be assured though that once the facts are established this will be part of the report KPMG make on the administration of Wrapit. Legally there are doubts about whether a wrongful trading action, 'trading whilst insolvent', would succeed, as it seems that Wrapit were making extensive efforts to find new investors in order to keep the business going, and this would often be a successful defence.

This does not mean though that no consequent action will be undertaken. We believe that KPMG do want to cooperate with us for mutually beneficial aims. They appear to want to do a thorough job, and did say that if they felt further action could be justified against the directors, and it was a question of funding this action they would be prepared to discuss the information they had and the potential funding issues with us.

Furthermore, the repayment of those loans is being fully investigated by KPMG, there are some serious questions that need answering about them.

The point about further consumer protection is also a high priority for the committee. For example we are looking at a PR plan to put in the spotlight the question as to how many consumers really understand that paying by debit card on the internet is more risky? The credit card fee on the purchase actually buys you protection to ensure you get your money back if the service or good isn't provided, debit cards providing much less protection we think is probably poorly understood by the general public, and we are working on a plan to highlight this. Furthermore, we have written to the relevant government minister on this issue, and as previously mentioned will be looking to discuss the problems with the Financial Ombudsman. The aim of both of these actions being in part to look for ways to improve consumer protection in the future.

I'm sure everyone is agreed about the inadequacy of statutory protection for future consumers making these type of purchases, but currently getting the lost payments back is of primary concern.

Information on the correct way for guests to deal with Switch/Maestro payments would be extremely useful just now.

Please update us on this ASAP.

Any proper help with Visa Debit would be particularly appreciated. The divergence has been extraordinary between the banks. Halifax refunded us in full after the minimum of prompting, but on the other hand Halifax told another guest that there was no such thing as a chargeback (complete lie). Otherwise Nationwide have fobbed off another guest, telling him to file a "visa concerns" report but that "it was unlikely to work and I might as well give up". Again - wrong information.
It's all extremely frustrating - will HSBC's latest move improve the situation?
So far, also, the spreadsheed that's been created on this site isn't working.

The spreadsheet under the 'Bank Chargeback Spreadsheet' post is now operational, click on the attachment and the spreadsheet will open.

Hi, over half of our guests were Spanish - does anybody know how this all affects guests who paid with foreign debit/credit cards? I wonder whether HSBC's letter would have reached international branches and how our guests should proceed with the refunds.

I can't get the spreadsheet to work - has anyone else had this problem?

So far we have had confirmed refunds from Lloyds TSB and Nationwide, both on visa debit cards, and one from Mint credit card - although all three of those didn't say yes at first point of contact - keep persevering is my advice...

Thank you SO much for all your efforts so far. It is really appreciated.

Our guests have had a firm NO on Meastro and Switch.

Thank you SO much for all your efforts so far. It is really appreciated.

Our guests have had a firm NO on Meastro and Switch.

Hi,

I believe that Switch branded cards should be able to achieve a chargeback. Maestro (Mastercard) took over this brand some time ago so there will be very few, if any, cards branded as just Switch.

If you have a guest with a single branded Switch card, i'd be willing to dig up the rules on this and help you out.

If anyone has any other feed back on the spreadsheet or questions post here and one of the committee will pick up.

Dawn

Hi,
Have the committee had any more news from KPMG as to when it will release their report on Wrapit. I think someone mentioned 10 weeks from them going into administration which i thin is about a week and a half. Also are they suppose to have a meeting for all the creditors to attend?
Cheers

^^ You don't have it yet? They emailed it to me last week sometime. They won't hold a creditors meeting unless a certain % of creditors ask for one because of costs involved.

Sorry, they've put it online as well

http://www.wrapit-in-administration.co.uk/

Quite interesting to see just how much suppliers were owed

OK thanks i have found it now.
My god...I'm no accountant, but looking at the losses it was clocking up year on year, its unbelieveable they were allowed to trade for so long!

The report mentions very little about the actions of the directos. Is KPMG still looking into this?

I don't think this will be looked into until the Liquidator is appointed.

As there is nothing to be realistically liquidated there is unlikely to be a liquidator appointed. We have been assured by KPMG that they will ensure all matters needing investigation will be fully followed up on though.

Furthermore, with regards to a creditors meeting there is also no real benefit to holding one. As those of you that have read the report will see, the debts far exceed any recoveries that can be made from anything, and a meeting will therefore only add cost to a process that is not going to yield us anything from Wrapit. The pressure on the financial institutions and ensuring that they are chased up to provide refunds under their procedures is the only way we or our guests are going to get any refunds. This is now yielding some sucess and we hope to have further news later this week.

Perhaps I'm reading Ms. Moriarty's proposals too literally?

The Liquidator is the only person who can bring an action for Wrongful Trading etc.

Abbey have refused to refund one of our guests.

What was the basis of the refusal?

Is this all 'Wrapped up'now? Anyone know if KMPG or liquidators find any wrong doing at all?